Michael Kaplan 0:00

Yeah, my martial arts is an intimidating thing to to step into, regardless of what which one you're going to try. But most gyms aren't viper pits. Most it's not Cobra Kai. Yeah, no, no, it's it's really not like that. Um, so yeah, we try to be as welcoming as possible.

Trev Warnke 0:21

Welcome into another episode of the Brotherhood Beyond Business Podcast. Today we're gonna be talking to Michael of North Star Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and we're gonna go through his business, talk about why he's in Prescott Valley, and just get to know more about Michael. So, Michael, just go ahead and give me just a short introduction to what uh North Star is, and then also a little bit about yourself.

Michael Kaplan 0:39

North Star is the first uh Jiu Jitsu Academy here in uh Prescott Valley. We definitely realized uh well, I definitely realized after moving to the area uh six or seven years ago that uh there was a lot of opportunity here. There was uh multiple academies in Prescott, uh one in Chino, uh but in terms of like the bigger uh metro areas, Prescott Valley didn't have one, and a lot of people were commuting uh, you know, from Dewey or uh from out here 30, 40 minutes to train. And that's just not ideal uh for you know people with families and busy schedules and whatnot. Um yeah, that's that's kind of um what what uh um what inspired us to do to do North Star. I'm sorry, I missed I what was your other question? Based on North Star, what is North Star? Like what's what was the purpose of the name of North Star's game? That's a great question. So I can't take credit for it personally. Uh a close friend of mine uh came up with the name. And if I'm being honest, I I wasn't crazy about it at first, but then I started asking people, like, what do you think of this? And uh, and it really resonated with with people close to me. And then I started thinking about it, and I'm like, well, yeah, um, that actually does make a lot of sense. Uh um and and now like I love the name. You know, my my business partner Dylan and I both, you know, view view this project as like both our North Star, and we hope it uh that's the case for uh for the students. Uh, jujitsu like is something that has a tremendous impact on a lot of people. And I get all the time people telling me like, I'm going through this and I'm going through that, and like I really, really needed this today, you know, grappling someone trying to choke me. Uh strangely enough, is very therapeutic to lots of people, and myself included. It it brought, you know, so many good things to my life.

Trev Warnke 2:21

Yeah, so in business, we have uh what we call like a north star metric, right? So it's the one, what's the one thing if I if the to move the business forward would be our north star metric? And so like for that, and when I kind of think this for BJJ for people, it's probably like this is the one thing that like creates serenity in my life. Like if I when I get my session in, like I told you that we own a gym out in Illinois, and we have a lot of clients tell us, like, man, when the day is bad, I know I have my GCP workout coming up at the end of the day, and I'm gonna be, no matter what just happened, I disappear for 45 minutes and forget about everything before I go home to my family. Um, and so that's an awesome thing. Like it's a it can be like a true North Store in people's lives to get them separated from all the other chaos. I mean, I I grew up in in athletics, I own a gym as well. And the thing I always think about is like there's very few things in my life that can get my brain to just truly just disappear and shut off from all the outside noise. And when you're sweating hard, you're grappling with people. For me, I played football, hitting people, like those kind of things. My wife, she did crab Magaff for years when we were in Illinois. And so, like, we always talk about those are the things, like those are the true moments when we escape because we can't think about anything else than in many ways survival. Yeah. Trying to like die on the fitness thing, right? When you're grappling with somebody, I'm just trying to make sure that I don't hurt them or injure them or get in bad positions.

Michael Kaplan 3:32

I think to like the normal person, that might sound terrible. Like I'm making my problems go away by like facing these other problems. Um, but in reality, uh it's it is very therapeutic. There's there's a popular meme that goes around uh the jujitsu circles where there's like uh loud noises in the background as the person stepping onto the mat, and then when they step on, like everything's silent. It's it's like that. Have you ever done any other martial arts? Very little. We used to um you know dabble in like MMA back in the day. Uh uh, I would say probably 14, 15 years ago, about every Friday night, we would uh we would do kickboxing and then mix the kickboxing stuff with the grappling stuff. But I do not like getting punched in the head. It's not my thing. I didn't I didn't necessarily uh try jujitsu because I was interested in self-defense or martial arts personally. It was more of a fitness endeavor for me.

Trev Warnke 4:26

Yeah. Yeah, that's so I've never done martial arts myself. Always been interested, never done it. My wife did Krav Maga for years, um, which is in many ways not really a martial arts. It's really just a defense kind of tool because she was doing inner city teaching in in Chicago, so her dad was like, You've gotta protect yourself, right? Makes sense. And so, but when she talks about what uh that kind of thing, with it being like the protective mechanism that you do, but like the escapism that comes from it, she says it's very enjoyable to be able to like go into an escapism that like I also can utilize outside of this. Like people use escapism as phones and other things like that. I can go into my phone and disappear for a while. But disappearing into something that is physically tough is like it's it's a superpower because it resonates into all other aspects of your life. If you can do something hard like that, it makes so many other things that you do in life a lot easier. And it's an escapism in the sense that the world disappears, but it's actually like personal development in that same.

Michael Kaplan 5:19

I uh agree uh with everything you said there. And I love that you use the word uh superpower because we we call it that all the time. And that's a little bit different from the the escapism analogy. They're they're two separate things. But um the superpower part, like you can to someone who's untrained, who who's never done the thing before, to to be um so thoroughly controlled and and and maybe even like have the ability to to call your shots with just you know a small amount of uh experience uh over someone, it really does, it really does feel like that. It's it's not magic, it's it's a real skill. It's it's uh it's an escape that that makes you a better version of yourself. But um once you acquire a little bit of skill and and use it on someone who doesn't have it yet, you realize like it's it's it's it's a superpower.

Trev Warnke 6:08

It's almost magic, yeah. So one thing I've noticed probably over the last five years is for BJJ specifically, there's been a lot of CEOs that go into BJJ for skill building, but really just for the idea of like the reason that they like BJJ more than some other things, even more than just like fitness classes, is the skill development component of it, right? So the idea is like mastery. I think CEOs or our entrepreneurs love mastery of something. Sometimes in fitness, you're just like, I'm just going to put in some more work for the sake of like work, but like a martial arts can be like, okay, we're leveling up, we're moving through those things. How what have you noticed for yourself, like the the skill development over time, that how does that drive you to keep learning more?

Michael Kaplan 6:46

Well, part of it is is that is that superpower aspect that I was talking to you about. I'm not just gonna acquire the superpower and and not wield it. It's it's frankly, like being a smaller, older guy, having the ability to hold someone twice my size down and and control them is like pretty satisfying and and it's not something I want to lose. In terms of mastery, you can never fully master it. But the pursuit of that, I think, is um is uh um what what keeps me going too, not just like it feels good to control people. Um uh I know that that there's a there's a black hole of grappling techniques that I can learn, but I'm still excited to learn new techniques. I I'm I'm a fan of the sport that our athletes at the highest level and the innovations that they're bringing to the game. It's it's still a very new in terms of of sport and and popularity. So it's still very much developing. I mean grappling's thousands of years old, and there's nothing like brand new, but things go in and out of style, and and I'm right there trying to trying to try everything. You know what I mean?

Trev Warnke 7:53

Awesome. So I grew up in Iowa, and in Iowa, the big one of the big things besides football is wrestling. And so I wrestled when I was in in high school and middle school and stuff. And so it's one of those skill sets, though. This is something that like being able to control another person, especially male, like you say in that in those, you're obviously dictated the same weight as somebody, but to be like going, I I wrestled at 189. So 189 versus 189, no, I'm the stronger of the 189 people, or maybe it's not truly the stronger, but I've I've mastered the skill technique better than you is a very empowering thing to be like, man, like this is really, really cool to be able to like, because I mean, if you just think of your hang out with your buddies, like you always want to get in a wrestling match or fighting, fighting in a good way with them, because that's just like male on male dominance kind of idea. So it is cool, a cool skill set overall.

Michael Kaplan 8:36

We have a version of what you're talking about with like the competitions. I always tell my students when when they level up to the next belt, uh, that it's that you never really feel like uh comfortable or confident in that new belt until you beat a man in a competition wearing that belt. Because in the training room, everyone's different ages, everyone's different weights, and everyone knows, you know, what you're good at, what you're not good at. But out there on the competition, in front of the lights or under the lights, in front of, you know, the family and the coaches, the stakes are a little bit higher. And that that definitely, you know, you you you feel a lot more confident once that box is checked, you know, strapping that thing on um every time, you know, moving forward. So for your business, you guys, what what age groups do you all work with? Five and up. Five and up all the way up till Yeah, we have we have someone uh in our program right now who is uh uh over 60. So yeah, anywhere between five and pretty much whenever they feel like old as you feel like doing it. I had a I had a buddy down in Phoenix who started at uh 55, 56, and um that was um 16 years ago, he's still doing it. Black belt now.

Trev Warnke 9:44

So how does that work? So let's say you start at like 55 years old. How does that work with integrating with other belts? Does it's not based on age group, or how does that work?

Michael Kaplan 9:52

I love this question. The belt, the belt system can be something that's very that that can muddy the waters quite a bit. Just because you're taking the blue belt uh doesn't mean that you're better than every white belt in the room. And in terms of someone who is a little bit older, the truth is that their ceiling is a lot lower. These these kids who are starting at five years old, that they can be world champions by the time they're they're 18, 20 years old. Uh someone starting at 40 years old just isn't gonna be the world champion. It's just they're they're not gonna be the best in the world. They're gonna, they're gonna um, they've lost that youthful uh absorbent, you know, soak everything up like a sponge. They can still uh they can still improve, they can still build a strong game. But um, long story short, that's kind of something I have to consider. Like, where is where is the ceiling for this person based on their age and and their weight or or whatever whatever things might be making improvement more challenging?

Trev Warnke 10:48

So I'm gonna come from this from a perspective of a 40, I just turned 40, something I've always wanted to get into martial arts. So walk me through uh how you would not convince me, I'm coming in with the idea I want to start martial arts, kind of take the nervousness away from me on like, I've never done this. There's a bunch of kids in here, there's a bunch of different age groups, and they're so much better than me. Where do I start and how do I kind of integrate into what's going on?

Michael Kaplan 11:11

I mean, as of right now, we're we're only uh two years old. Uh my my answer when when someone calls and says, uh, do you guys work with beginners, people who are brand new, is always like, yeah, we're we we've only been open for uh under two years and we don't have a ton of advanced people yet. Um as we grow, there's there's gonna be separation. We're there's gonna be a bigger schedule. Uh, there's gonna be an advanced class uh and there's gonna be a fundamentals class. And and those groups will will train in in the in the room that's that's more appropriate for them at the time. Right now, everything is mixed because it's just mostly lower ranks and and relatively new people. So the technique is is not not too involved, not too advanced yet. As we grow, we'll grow into separating the advanced from the beginners and and making sure everyone's comfortable. We're we're big on um having as welcoming as a program as we can. We we want to work with everybody. Uh, we don't have a you know gold standard for what a a North Star student should look like. We want to be patient with everyone we need to be patient with. And yeah, that's that.

Trev Warnke 12:16

Yeah, I mean that's I mean, first of all, for anybody that's listening to the podcast right now and you've been looking at doing something like this, like this sounds like it's a good time to start with you guys because I just look at it like, you know, someday there'll be a separation and you guys will still be able to create the separation for the people coming new, regardless. But if you're all kind of nervous getting into it, going to a gym that's maybe been around a lot longer, so I didn't even think of it. The idea that, like, in general, your clients are growing with your two years. And so it's like this is a better time to get in on the ground floor when the skill set, hey, I can be able to get in with these guys.

Michael Kaplan 12:44

Furthermore, I would argue a room full of advanced grapplers is is a more welcoming room. When when we first started and everyone was brand new, you know, first week, first month, first couple months, it's a lot of legwork for us as coaches catching everybody up all at once on the warmups and and uh things like that. And now that, you know, even though uh we got we don't have a ton of people who've moved up to the next level yet, but we have a lot of people who've been here uh a year or more, those people, they they take the workload off of me as a coach. They're welcome the new person and and help them with their warmups. And uh more experience in the room only means more more coaching assets for for the new people, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Trev Warnke 13:24

I mean, that's good to know. Like that uh don't worry too much about being in a bit, because it if it's like most sports or even like for our gym, is the more experience somebody's in there, they're willing to step in and then help out. Like, hey, you might be missing this. The coach is busy over here. Yeah, I can maybe help you out, or if you're grappling with them, be like, hey, they're just gonna be more willing to help out because they could they've seen the journey too.

Michael Kaplan 13:42

Yeah, my martial arts is an intimidating thing to step into, regardless of which one you're going to try. But most gyms aren't viper pits. Most it's not Cobra Kai. You know, no, it's it's really not like that. Um, so yeah, we try to be as welcoming as possible. And and most of the other programs I've I've been involved with or visited uh are the same, you know. It's a it's a very warm and welcoming community.

Trev Warnke 14:05

And so you guys have been open here two years. Have you and your business partner been business partners the whole time?

Michael Kaplan 14:10

Yeah, uh Dylan is a brown belt in jujitsu. Um he's got a good amount. Well, I've got a good amount of experience uh on him. A lot of what we built is based on like my credentials and whatnot. But uh this man is like my right-hand man. I we could not have done this without him. Uh um my skills are his weaknesses, and vice versa. You know, he's the construction guy. I'm the, you know, work in the books guy. And then I could go on and on. He he acclimated to uh to teaching jujitsu so fast and and uh you know now kind of doesn't even need my help. And he's he's uh the uh um he's the head of our kids program. Uh he's he makes all the final calls when it comes to to those classes and and those kids and he ties the belt on on them and all that. I I could go on about about Dylan. I wish he was here, but uh yeah, the best people.

Trev Warnke 15:00

Yeah, that's so in um over the years, uh I always go back to YouTube gurus because I think they're all none of them actually ran a business, in my opinion, when you listen to them. But one of the things a lot of them like don't get a business partner. And I personally have had business partners in every single business I've ever owned. Uh I right now I have four different businesses that I run and I have a different business partner in each one. Yeah. Um, and it's one of the coolest things in the world for me personally, because being an entrepreneur is very lonely in general, right? Because you don't have a lot of people to talk to about this. And if you're not, if you don't have a business partner, you have to go out to literally to war alone on yourself when things it's all falls back on you. But having somebody like that, that you can they can be they can do other things that you might not be able to do, but also it's just like be able to collaborate on stuff and be like, man, I know that like when shit hits the fan, I'm gonna have somebody go go with it with me and keep building this business. So I love having business partners.

Michael Kaplan 15:48

That's honestly really nice to hear because um, you know, in the business planning stages of all of this, I had so many people tell me, don't do it. Don't do it. Like you need to do it yourself. Business partnerships don't work out, it's a bad idea. Um, and I've just kind of considered myself lucky. I I guess I just picked the right person to help me with this thing. I I see how it could have gone south. Yeah, it didn't.

Trev Warnke 16:13

So I do think I get why they say that for sure, because there are there's a lot of instances that has happened, but I think it's like you used to talk about you could you just can talk glowingly about them, right? And I think if you get in business with the right person and you go in with it because this person is the right human, I think that's for me when I've picked business partners, every single person I've known for a long time, or if if I didn't know them along, I know their heart. I can spend enough time to know really what their heart is. Um, so and what that allows me to do is like I know when stuff happens, like let's say, well, COVID's a perfect example. For us, our our businesses went through COVID. And so uh when we went through COVID, we had to have, we had a lot of obstacles that were coming at us. All my business partners stood up and like, we're gonna, we can take this together, right? Versus, I feel like a bad business partner might bail in that situation. I want to sell right now, sell out of this kind of stuff. But it is, I mean, there a lot of advice would be exactly as as you had been told. And I've always leaned on the opposite side, being like, I've been through the trenches for a lot of years now. I've been in business for 12 years. My dad's main own owns a huge manufacturing corporation. His business partner is my mom, and they've gone through hell to build that business over the years. I've always just seen like a partnership has been so valuable because it gets hard. Uh that like if you can find the right person, business is going to be more sustainable for a 30 to 40 year journey than like a 10 10 years by yourself, maybe. 30 years by yourself, that's a hard yeah.

Michael Kaplan 17:28

I think you're exactly right too. Like the important thing is like, you know, looking into this person's heart. Are they a good, good spirited, uh, kind human being, ready to, you know, do what it takes, or you know, are they are they in it for themselves and and uh like you know, because you're gonna be in the trenches with this person. You're gonna make hard decisions with this person. So yeah, love all that.

Trev Warnke 17:47

Yeah. And I I think uh sometimes people think about uh they're in it for the money. And one thing I have to say about entrepreneurship, in my personal opinion, is you should never be in entrepreneurship for the money because realistically, unless you have like a software company or something of that nature, it the money in the end, over years it will grow. But the first many years are really, really tough, and the money take home is very, very small comparable to what people think you're taking home. Um, and it's like one of those things is like whenever somebody's like, this this guy got in, became my business partner for the money, is like, well, you shouldn't have gone in a small business. That was a wrong idea to go in for the money.

unknown 18:17

Yeah.

Trev Warnke 18:18

Um it's a long journey. Uh, and you're you're two years into the initial stages of it. And the cool part is like, in my opinion, once it hits like that five-year thing, and it's when it really like solidifies that like the finances really start to grow, you really start to figure out like your sweet spot on where every day marketing stuff. Yeah, you gotta be in general for clients. They there's a trust level. The longer you're in business, the more they naturally trust you. Not people that that are currently working outside leads coming in the door, being like, this comp this business is two years old versus five years old. Like our gym is 12 years old. And it's like there's very few gyms in our area that are 12 years old. Most of them are two years old because they don't make it past that five-year thing. But like you're getting closer to that period and that confidence of when that when that hit for us, that's when like financially things really started changing, being like, oh, like I can actually tell my wife that we actually made money that like the the CPA won't be like, well, we got to write that off as lost. So it becomes more enjoyable at that point in time. So it's awesome that you have a good business partner along that.

Michael Kaplan 19:10

Yeah, I mean, it it's uh it's it's still very much an enjoyable uh pursuit for for both of us. Um we we mop the mats at the end of the night, every night, you know, and and I'm like a broken record. What what a lovely night of classes, you know. Uh we're we're so fortunate to do what we do. Look at this palace that we built. We don't make a ton of money, and we knew we weren't gonna make a ton of money doing this. And and yeah, it was it was never about that. It was about doing something that makes me happy, doing something that that that feels good and and uh pretty much it.

Trev Warnke 19:42

It's the idea of when you wake up for the day, it's gonna be a hard day. It's gonna be a hard day for everybody, right? But like you're gonna you have those moments throughout the day where it's like this is the glorious part of the day, is I really get to do what I want to do. I you get to train, coach people, you get that ability, like I'm impacting lives. And yes, there's gonna be a part of the day that's business focused and it's not always the most fun part of the day. But the reward of those training classes on the outside, for me, it's like when I uh current one of the businesses I own right now is a marketing business. And if I'm being honest, that marketing business, there's not a lot of parts of the day where I'm like, gosh, this was really, really fun. It was business, right? Whereas when our gym, I would get done coaching athletes in the evening or something like that. And I'd be like, holy smokes, that was the best 45 minutes. Like that 45 minutes was awesome. Like the kids felt great, and that's that's a reward I don't think people on the outside see from the coaching perspective. Um, is that side where you've the the reward of you I think when people first come in to to, um I'm using my own personal opinion of this, is when they come into our settings, gyms and martial arts kind of thing, they come in and see I'm trading off this much money for this training. Until they start to get in an environment with you long enough and see the heart that you're pouring into that person, those people start to realize after a while, like, I mean, this person, I guarantee they would train me for free. That's how much they love this. And now I'm willing to keep spending my money with them longer because I know they would literally do this for free for me because they enjoy this so much. And that's there's very few jobs you're gonna go into.

Michael Kaplan 21:04

So yeah, I mean, furthermore, I as the consumer, you know, thinking back to when I first started, I got I got a lot more than just a transaction between, you know, money and and learning moves. I met all my favorite people, all my best friends, uh, all of all of the people I consider role models. It had that big of an impact on my life, and I'm not the only one, you know. So this is this is uh um not only a business that makes me happy, but it's it's something that is like just a net positive for the community. We're not selling milkshakes or alcohol or or vapes or or anything that's gonna that's gonna um, you know, cause it cause one anyone any kind of harm or or or unhealthiness or or anything like that. And so uh that that feels really good too, that like, you know, the the product itself comes from a from a good place in in our hearts, you know?

Trev Warnke 21:56

Yeah. Well there's not a lot of places left in society. Where there's true community. And that's what gyms have the ability to do. It's like what I mean, I mean, you can go to Planet Fitness and there's a lot of people in the same place, but that's not community. There's a lot of people in the same place. In gyms or martial arts studios that are like this, like you're actually interacting with other people and having real conversations before, after class, during class. Those are real communities. There's just not a lot left. And when my dad talks about in the 70s, they had a lot of things that they would groups that they could go to and go do things together with other men or other women, like golf club. I mean, there's still golf, but like they would have social things built around. And we don't have that near the same. So it's awesome that we do have these kind of things.

Michael Kaplan 22:33

Yeah, I guess that's what I was trying to say in fewer words. Uh growing up in the big city, which can be a meat grinder, I I never really felt that sense of community until I was on the mats with the same people for months and months and years and years.

Trev Warnke 22:46

It's an amazing thing that until you try it, do people really realize that? I don't think people probably come in from the outdoor usually thinking they're get getting a community when they're when they're investing in this. They're investing in like themselves. Right. But they're investing in other people that are reinvesting in themselves too. And I think it's just a missed component that a lot of people don't take, they take for granted without realizing how valuable it can be. It I mean, post-COVID, it's very good for mental health to be interacting with other people. I mean, it's always been good, but like post-COVID's a big thing because people shelter themselves in certain ways. Not nearly here. I obviously I was in Chicago during that time. Way different shelter variation than you guys had here. Yeah. But it still did change a lot of people's mentalities.

Michael Kaplan 23:22

Yeah, and I mean Phoenix wasn't far. There was very much uh um the uh the Chicago thing going on down there as well. And and yeah, a lot of people had to confront a lot of, I mean, even up here, you know, a lot of the gyms stayed open and and whatnot, but you know, there was still a lot of the community that took the lockdown stuff seriously. And I still spent a lot of time, you know, at home, isolated, even even with looser restrictions. So yeah, I couldn't agree more. And it's a real shame what what uh what the pandemic did to a lot of gyms down there in the Valley of True.

Trev Warnke 23:56

Yeah, yeah. We went through some hard times during that time too. The I but I think for people the average person, it's like just because you lost community during that time, like a lot of people have left, just stayed away community. Now it's time to start rebuilding that community and finding those things too. Because if you are struggling with mental health, like this can change it real fast. I'm amazed that we've talked about that in our fitness facility is people that have come in that have been ice, relatively isolated for a long period of time, besides just going to work, they've just been isolated in general, not just because of COVID, just naturally because the world's become more technology so they can be isolated and feel connected when they get into an environment like this, holy smokes, I haven't felt this since high school, you know, like that, or college kind of feeling.

Michael Kaplan 24:33

Yeah, and and um I've seen incredible transformations in in people mentally and physically from getting involved in and doing something like this. I I personally didn't care for the um, you know, running on a treadmill, routing a wheel, go into the public gym thing. Personally, I I needed something that that like engaged me a little bit more, something I could do like with a group and kind of fall into the background if I needed to. And so for me, this was was the right fit for fitness where other people would try more uh conventional means.

Trev Warnke 25:08

Walk me through your schedule just so people are listening can get an idea of what your guys' current schedule is. Roughly a Monday through Saturday kind of schedule that you guys have. Yeah.

Michael Kaplan 25:15

Uh Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we have 10 a.m. classes for adults. Uh Tuesday and Thursday, we have 9 a.m. classes for homeschool kids. Uh those are all of our morning classes. Uh in the evening, we have so many classes. Monday nights is uh oh, I'm sorry. Monday through Friday is our bigger kids' class. That's roughly ages 8 through 13, 14, depending on when they hit that gross spurt and and uh start to grow into their adult bodies. Tuesday through Thursday at 4:15 is our littles class. Those are kids uh ages five through seven, eight-ish, depending on when they hit that gross spurt. And then um uh Monday through Friday adult classes at uh six o'clock. Uh we have a nogi adult class at seven o'clock on Monday night, and then an adult open mat Saturday at 10 a.m. I think that's everything.

Trev Warnke 26:13

So those are the those are the class hours you guys are currently offering. So when we look at, so obviously you guys offer a lot of different things for a lot of different age groups. So kids used to start at kindergarten. Uh five years old.

Michael Kaplan 26:25

Five years old, five years old. We have classes for around four and a half, and uh we'll we'll be honest with the parents. Like they're not ready, they're taking up too much of our attention from the rest of class, but for the most part, five and a half.

Trev Warnke 26:35

And so when they're coming at that age, what are this is me just truly just asking, because I don't know a lot about this kind of stuff. What are they kind of doing at the very, very young age?

Michael Kaplan 26:43

Yeah, it's it's definitely a more stripped down, simpler version of what the bigger kids do. And what the bigger kids do is a more stripped down, simpler version of what the adults do. Um and uh also we've definitely noticed over time that that the little kids have certain tendencies that the the adults don't, and and gravitating to towards those tendencies so so they can be successful and gravitating towards the other things that the adults can be successful with. It's it's uh yeah, it's it's a little bit of trial and error. Throw something at the wall, it's not quite working, tweak it. It's uh it's a shorter class than than the uh bigger kids' class or the adult because the attention spans are a lot shorter. And yeah, just uh um for the most part, like removing a lot of those details and steps and things that are gonna just get them get them stuck and confused before they even do the thing, if that makes sense.

Trev Warnke 27:40

Is there any any reason a kid shouldn't be doing a martial arts? Is there anything that you could be like, yeah, this is usually like so example when so what's a good fit for somebody doing a young kid doing martial arts versus maybe not a good fit?

Michael Kaplan 27:53

I uh man, I I uh I hate to uh give anyone a reason not not to try jujitsu. I uh I I think that uh well our program in particular, we we want to work with everybody that we can. And and some kids come in and they're they're scared to even step on the mat. It's tears, you know, right when they walk through the door, and it takes a week of doing that before they have the confidence to step on the mat. And we want to work with those kids. We want, we want to build their confidence up. We want them, uh, you know, next time they do something like that, to not be afraid when when they walk through the door. So so no, I don't I don't view anything as like that's too much of a challenge for us to work with this person. Nothing really comes off the top of my head why why someone shouldn't give it a try. I think that I think that you maybe need to be a a little crazy to do it, you know, for as long as I have, as much as I have, but you know, that's besides the point.

Trev Warnke 28:49

So then let's go into the adult side then. So for adults, is there anybody I'm just trying to like help the people that are listening, like what is a is this a good fit for me? No, and I agree, it pretty much could be a good fit for anybody. Yeah. Is there anything that you like would caution an adult from? Like, hey, if you have shoulder mobility issues or anything that you're running, like, man, these are things you need to maybe get fixed before you try this.

Michael Kaplan 29:08

No, not necessarily. I've I've had a lot of a lot of injuries over the years, and and uh sure you have to wait till the healing's there to a certain degree before you train again, but um uh it's very much like things I can I can work around. What what deters a lot of adults is like uh real, real hungry youngsters. You know what I mean? The uh the high school kids who just who just finished the wrestling program, who are ready to you know get after it and go hard with anyone and everyone. You see a lot of the the dads, you know, the career guys um, you know, get deterred from that. But um, you know, nobody has to train with anybody that they don't want to. I think that the young, hungry youngsters should train with the young, hungry youngsters and and the the the casual dads should train with the casual dads, and the ones who want to mix it up with everyone are are welcome to do that too. I think that uh, you know, a a brand new white belt, training with a brand new white belt is the highest chances for for injury and accidents, if that's the case. So if that's something you're worried about, gravitate towards someone with more experience, even if that means you are losing most of that training session, that's that's healthy too. You you have to figure out how to pressure and escaping bad positions and uh and a lot of it is just putting yourself in those positions over and over and over again, learning to stay calm and find your space to work.

Trev Warnke 30:29

No, I think that's great advice because I don't think that would be your your natural instinct. People's natural instinct would be like, oh, I see another white belt. They're like me. I should probably train with them because they're not as they're as the same advanced level as I am. But the actual thing, especially with martial arts, that's probably different than most things, is a more advanced person is probably gonna be safer because they're gonna put you in better positions. They're not gonna like twist you in a way that they don't even know if that's the right position to be putting you in. Um, I think about that back in my wrestling days, that when we when when you're wrestling, like they would always have us like the seniors and stuff rush with the freshmen to help them teach them the skill set versus other freshmen who are just going at it hard, but they're learning nothing realistically.

Michael Kaplan 31:04

Yeah, there's there's a character in jujitsu and in any jujitsu room that you have to watch out for. We call them the spazzy white belt. Uh, and and it's not necessarily someone who's gonna rip a submission with with bad intent, but you know, they're gonna explode and and you know, you might get caught with an elbow or a knee uh because they're just freaking out. Uh, because it's they don't they don't understand the the um that that a lot of it is is staying calm, being sneaky and and setting traps and and uh and so just the brute force comes out, and it's that brute force that's gonna that's gonna injure people a lot of times.

Trev Warnke 31:38

Okay, that's cool. I mean, I they as I kind of dig through my head as me and my wife have been talking about doing different martial arts, she's again did crop and got for years and wants to get back into it. Me, I've mainly done fitness for many years since football, and I'm always like, I want to become more of a protector. And I think men should be this should be a category. We talk to male entrepreneurs a lot. It's like I think being a protector of your wife means more. It used to used to mean a physical protector. And then for years it became just a financial, and now it's decide where we really need to be a combination of both. And I don't know if it's really for anything you specifically need to protect, physically protect your wife from. This area is a very awesome area, safe area. However, it's like it's a it's a male skill set that you should have. And I've been talking to a lot of men, like you protection shouldn't be part of that. Part of it is knowing how to wield a weapon safe, knowing how to do that kind of stuff for sure. But you also need to know physically, just I'm a big guy, I'm 225 pounds, pretty muscular. But if I get you and me get in into a fight, you're probably going to take me down, even though you're sm smaller physically than me. It's because I know nothing about throwing maybe throwing a couple punches, and that's all I got. And I'm hoping most men will never have to get in a situation they actually have to utilize those things. But I think as a male, a male, that should be just a skill set we have the ability to protect other people in our lives physically.

Michael Kaplan 32:47

Yeah, I mean, if if for nothing else, uh peace of mind and uh uh that the people you're with feeling safe, you know. Yeah, couldn't agree more.

Trev Warnke 32:56

It's funny because with with my wife, I I don't worry about her near as much. I mean, I don't worry, I you I don't think you really worry worry about yourself very often, but I don't worry about my wife as most people do because she's been she's a crowd and got for 11 years, right? Yeah. And so she's very skilled in that side, and she's small, she's 120 pounds, um, at five foot two, but uh she's no, she's very skilled. And I'm like, that's kind of stuff that's it's nice to like to set protection side of things and for husbands for your wives too. It's like getting it, get them into something like this that has a level of self-defense to it too, just protection for their safety. One-on-one body strength is really important too.

Michael Kaplan 33:28

Yeah, I mean, hopefully, you know, none of us ever get into uh a violent, you know, self-defense uh situation. But like I said earlier, peace of mind. I know that um that if someone were to grab me, that I wouldn't even have to think about it, my body would react properly because it just knows how to react to someone grabbing me. People grab me like all the time, you know. So my brain wouldn't go to like, I need to do self-defense move, A, because he took a grip. A no, I just I would just move. Um, and um, and you know, I feel safer because of that, and and hopefully the the um the people around me do too.

Trev Warnke 34:03

Yeah, that's that repetition side that comes from being in a something consistent. Taking a uh weekend self-defense class once, you might have learned some things, but there's no way you've practiced and put that skill in often enough to actually be able to utilize it in that moment that it comes. Correct. But in these situations, when you're in here consistently practicing it all the time, like you said, it becomes second nature. You don't even, you probably don't even think, you wouldn't think twice. It's like when somebody grabs you and you know somebody's not supposed to be grabbing you, you're gonna go in those natural instincts.

Michael Kaplan 34:28

I I always tell this story of my friend who uh who tried to grab something out of my hand years ago. And it didn't even occur to me like what was happening, happening when he did it. I just arm dragged him and got behind him and was like, whoa, like that just happened. My body reacted. I my mind, my mind didn't need to.

Trev Warnke 34:49

Now that I think about that as wanting to be a protector of my wife, as that's something like I sit in those situations. I mean, I I think one entrepreneurial skill is we overthink a lot of things. And it's it's a good thing because you're looking for all the risks, right? You're trying to find those risk assessments. Or opportunities. And opportunities, right. And so I'm looking for uh with my wife uh as a protector, I'm always looking at these things like if we got in this situation, like she would be able to protect herself better than I could protect her. Like physically, maybe if we just got in a one-on-one brawl, I would be fine. For the most part, I've been wrestled since I was 18 years old. I'm 40 years old. I don't know how much muscle memory I'm gonna have left from those kind of things. Um maybe more than the average male would, but still like not enough that I feel super confident about. But it is those kind of things. I think men should just should be a skill set that we learn. One of the things I'm trying to do is trying to help men become the best version of themselves, like reach their full potential. And that is more than just, I think for the last maybe probably 15 years, that's truly been just a financial thing people have thought about. Like, how do I become the most financially successful male I can be? Because our society's gone to very white-collar thought, right? And I think, well, we need, and I think moving to Prescott area has been really cool for me because that has brought out like men are just more, a little bit more manly around here than where I've lived in Chicago for many years. When I grew up in Iowa, every man around there was pretty manly from what I had considered manly being, right? Growing up as a kid, like everybody knew how to take care of themselves, right? Chicago, not quite the same. Um, we also lived in a suburbs, which is even like a little bit more that way. So when moving out here, I was like, hey, man, this is kind of cool that guys know how to protect themselves here. And it's something I need to like step up my game. And I'm just kind of like calling to other males out there listening to this podcast, being like, this is a skill set that I think shouldn't be ignored. And BJJ, other martial arts, find the thing that really fits what you think might be, or try them all out. I think it's a really good starting point for men to kind of get in that community, but also get in the protective nature.

Michael Kaplan 36:31

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And uh, you know, I don't know why, why it is that way. Uh coming from some from living in the big city like you did as well, you'd think people would have more interest in self-defense living down there and then they would up here.

unknown 36:43

I don't know. Yeah.

Trev Warnke 36:45

You do look at that and you think like you're you're running into more opportunities for this kind of situation than we might ever run into here. I don't know. Maybe maybe it's just the big city living, you just kind of get like really used to things and you just get comfortable and life's busy, you don't even think about stuff.

Michael Kaplan 36:58

It's different.

Trev Warnke 36:59

Yeah, it's definitely different. So we've kind of gone through different parts of the business. I really like that you guys cover from kids all the way up to adults. And then you told me why you're in the Prescott Valley area because this is really the area that needed the bit had the biggest need for need for BJJ out of the the surrounding area. Yeah. What do you guys do for what's what's what would be you be your entry offer to people if somebody's like, hey, like I want to come try that out. Do you guys do any free sessions?

Michael Kaplan 37:21

Which kind of your Yeah, yeah, we offer a free trial class. Sometimes we're we're out in the community giving out coupons for for multiple uh free trial class, but the standard is just one. Um and uh we don't require that anyone schedule that online or call us in advance or anything like that. They just need to do the waiver, bring the sandals and water. We we normally uh have a have like a loner uniform they can wear if it's not a Wednesday, Wednesday's all like what I'm wearing, no D class. And yeah, typically you know in one class whether or not this is something you want to keep doing or not. I I know I certainly did. I I went home ecstatic and knew it was not something I was gonna quit anytime soon. So yeah.

unknown 37:59

Cool.

Trev Warnke 37:59

So they can come in and just get trial out. Like you say, they don't they don't really have only thing they need to know in advance is filling out the waiver and is that online or yeah, the waiver's on our website.

Michael Kaplan 38:06

There's a uh there's a visitor sign-up form, you give your first and last name, your email, and then a little liability waiver, and and that's it. Uh we always remind people bring sandals and water because because we don't want to bring uh uh dirty feet onto the mats for for sanitary purposes. Obviously, hydration is important. Yeah, that's about it. That's all they need to come try out class once.

Trev Warnke 38:26

Um I've I've approached this from the male perspective a lot. I want to kind of dive in the female perspective a little bit. Out of like uh what is in your percentage of BJJ students, like what's kind of the ratio of male to female?

Michael Kaplan 38:37

In the kids' class, uh relatively high. I I would say maybe 60, 40 uh in the kids. We have lots of girls that mix it up with the the boys. And um the the playing field's a little bit more level with the kids, and that that might be why. Um in the adults, it's it's a lot, it's a lot less than that. I I I would say, you know, maybe 10, 10, 15% of the adults are are girls. And that's that's the slowest like growing demographic in in any gym. I'm highly impressed with with any club that that has like a large women's program because it's it's uh it's just tougher. It's just tougher for a woman to to uh to come in and and and you know, most of the training partners are big sweaty guys and it's it's intimidating and all that. So yeah, that's why we have the women's only class uh once a week. And and uh, you know, some some uh some women are are doing that class and mixing it up with the the guys in the mixed adult class too. Uh but yeah.

Trev Warnke 39:38

That women's only class is a nice thing for like a confidence builder, right? To be like, come in, this is kind of what it's about. You can feel it, and if you really enjoy this, then you might feel more confident to be able to like, okay, I can mix in with the men a little bit more.

Michael Kaplan 39:49

Well, no, not necessarily. Some some women simply don't want to mix in with the men. And and um and in terms of why, I I don't really know. Uh I I've heard also all manner of things. Uh, some some women only want to train with the men because they feel that if if they're ever in a self-defense situation, it's gonna be against the man. It's um, you know, I just I just think that that females have a lot more trouble getting comfortable in in a in a you know rough and tumble wrestling room. It's that's that's just kind of what young boys do.

Trev Warnke 40:20

It is something that so growing up in Iowa, I've heard from my uh brother who still lives there that women's wrestling is really growing in Iowa, um, young women's wrestling, right? So it's one of those things that maybe it's something that is coming up in the thing and it might be more familiar in BJJ and stuff down the road when it they trained through things at a younger age through that. But I I would imagine, like my wife, so like I said, she did crab and god and she had to train mainly with banks who weren't a lot of women in this stuff. And she's like, she would probably get a little injured a little bit more often because the men were just so much stronger than she was for the stuff they were doing.

Michael Kaplan 40:49

And frankly, like it can be frustrating when when you're doing, you know, when you're doing decent techniques, you're doing the move right enough, but like brute strength is still too much to compensate for. Yeah. Uh, I've experienced that. I'm I'm not a bigger man, you know, and and yeah, size is definitely an asset. Testosterone is an asset if you're uh a female, makes you stronger.

Trev Warnke 41:14

Yeah, I'm actually I use TRT right now because I have an issue with low testosterone. Yeah. I had to get on TRT to help my testosterone get up, and it's amazing how much better I feel when my testosterone is at my at the right capacities.

Michael Kaplan 41:26

I don't think it's controversial at all to say that like women aren't as strong as men. I can feel it physically when I when I grapple with someone who who isn't as strong. And yeah, that's that's definitely makes it twice as hard.

Trev Warnke 41:38

So young girls, they're they're pretty involved in it, which is awesome. I love to hear that. And then and I think there's also like as you get older for women in general, it's just like that's not the you might that's maybe not the environment most women want to be in. They'd rather be in yoga classes or something like that. Maybe not, maybe if they could get a bruise, they don't want to bruise and all that kind of stuff. I definitely can see that. I when me and my wife have talked about martial arts and her getting back into it. She's like, well, I'm you know, I'm teaching now, so I don't want to end up with like she would sometimes have bruises on her arms and stuff, and her, you know, they'd be like, I don't want that around my kids. So there's I can definitely see their reasonings more than maybe a guy's reasoning is. Like if I show up to work with a bruised eye, nobody's gonna say too much, too much about that.

Michael Kaplan 42:14

So jujitsu is growing and is gain gaining popularity. Um I I think, I mean, I don't know for sure, but I but I think jujitsu is at this point in time the most popular martial art out there just because it's it's so discussed in the media, and uh, you know, your favorite celebrities probably doing it. Um and uh what I see more often than not is Jim's like growing into uh women's programs. Uh we we tried having a women's class right off the bat, and uh we we just didn't have enough people total to to to build a a women's class at that point in time. And so I I thought like why don't we wait until we have a hundred members and then try it again? And sure enough, like it was it was a better time, but um still it's just gonna be the slowest growing class and and and always a challenge to to to to make them feel comfortable wrestling with each other.

Trev Warnke 43:06

So from there, competition-wise, so what do you guys do for competitions? Do you guys have competitions here in Presco?

Michael Kaplan 43:12

Do you guys usually go down to the valley, or what do you guys do for we'd be interested in in hosting a tournament up here at some point in time? Uh that's that's something that that's never happened in this area. And I have some friends out in the White Mountains who are who are hosting tournaments now. So that's that's something that we put this much thought into. But uh competition's always been a big part of jujitsu for me. Like I said, I I I got into it more for fitness reasons and gravitated more towards the sport side of things than the self-defense side of things, which with any martial arts, you're gonna have that. But um yeah, we we we take teams down to uh to Phoenix pretty consistently, just about every every month, every month or two. And in our competition teams are growing. As they do, we we uh try to do uh more competition training. Something we do with the kids is is like. mock competition rounds where just two people are in the middle and everyone's yelling and making a bunch of noise. The parents are over here making a bunch of noise. So we feel nervous like, oh my goodness, everybody's watching me versus the the whole room is training and the kids are kind of goofing off with each other in those rounds a little more. So you get them more prepared for the environment and stuff. That's awesome. It can be very overwhelming stepping, stepping out and and competing against someone in front of all your friends and family.

Trev Warnke 44:29

I remember my first wrestling tournament versus playing football. Football, you can't hear the crowd it's just like you're on a field, all these other guys with you. The first time you're on a wrestling mat and you're the only person against somebody else and everybody's staring at you and everything around you gets fuzzy, you know, because you're so nervous. Yeah. It's definitely one of those things that you just until you're in that in in that environment do you really feel how like that heart rate really jacks up.

Michael Kaplan 44:52

And then afterwards you feel like you got hit by a Mac truck and you have this massive adrenaline dump and yeah. Yeah it's a lot.

Trev Warnke 45:00

So for a competition like it I'm I'm going back in my wrestling brain here. Is it a long day when you guys go down there?

Michael Kaplan 45:06

Is it like Yeah, it's a long day. Depending on the tournament this next one is uh is next month and and that tournament in particular we're gonna be there at 8 a.m before the kids start to get them ready to weigh in and all that and we're gonna be leaving there probably 8 p.m and uh sometimes we compete and that's just 12 hours of coaching plus competing. Uh it's yeah you you're feeling it for a week after.

Trev Warnke 45:32

Yeah I I bet that's that was what I always remember about wrestling tournaments was my parents didn't even go to them. It was just so long a day. It's like we got too many things to get done.

Michael Kaplan 45:39

These are long long days I could imagine for our competitors the family can show up an hour before they have their matches and and leave right after the podium for us as coaches it's it's quite exhausting. But again there's worse ways to spend a Saturday uh I I go down there and I uh I see all my friends who who are our coaches and and run academies down there all my friends I used to train with down there. It's a I go see a bunch of people I like and and socialize. It's it's not all work. I watch my students put it on the line which is also fun and and and satisfying in its own way. Very strong bonding moment to be able to be in those absolutely um do you compete at all anymore yourself? It's been yes short answer is yes I I had uh some knee issues uh that I'm dealing with at the moment it's been since since last year since I've done it but um I I love to compete it's yeah it's it's taxing but at the same time I I wouldn't trade it do you have for yourself do you have any like other people so do you just when you're you're just doing your normal training in here or do you have like a group of guys that compete at a higher level that you get together with or just mainly with the recruit when I was down in Phoenix I had that here starting from scratch uh opening opening my own gym it's me and Dylan and the students and my business partner Dylan is is a is a tough round and he's about my size and my age too so thankfully him and I match up together great. So in terms of high level training partners I have my business partner and then and then the students and some of the students are getting pretty dang tough.

Trev Warnke 47:08

Just when you're saying that I was just thinking like sometimes with my business partners I would love to be able to like once in a while just go out on the mat with them. Some of those moments where we have just a little bit of dis disagreement and what we're working on like stick it out on the mat for an hour.

Michael Kaplan 47:19

It's so funny because like that that is such a wonderful outlet where we we we get to talking about this and that maybe we have a fun you know a lighthearted disagreement or something and then just a a wrestle breaks out and and this is a recurring thing that that happens quite a bit. So yeah that that is pretty nice.

Trev Warnke 47:38

One of my favorite podcasters he him and his brother run their business together and he uh talks about how once in a while him and his brother I don't know if you his name's Andy Frasilla he run he has a podcast called Real AF and him and his brother who runs this big corp first form energy drinks or first form supplements runs this and they get once in a while they're just getting fist fights literally just like we're brothers we we do business together we'll do this in the office that kind of stuff and I just look at that being like I could never do that. Yeah but when you said this here it's like but in a controlled environment that would be really really fun I couldn't do it in an office setting but I could do in this like hey once in a while it'd be good to go at it we do that without the head trauma. Whereas my business partners I'm quite a bit bigger than all of them. They're more yours you know they're probably more in like that 170 pound range 225. I used to weigh 285 so come down a lot from there but a little bit different different physically so yeah I'm tall but I'm only 150 so uh definitely you know smaller than than most of my students.

Michael Kaplan 48:32

Really? Yeah.

Trev Warnke 48:33

Okay so I mean all sizes really fit for for something like this. Um but in terms of athlete wise is there one that like these athletes perform better is their size because like for football you have a certain size better basketball you have a certain size that does better. Is there anything for like a really good BJJ person that size wise matters?

Michael Kaplan 48:51

I I think that uh that having a long reach and and uh um and and being being tall and lanky is definitely beneficial. But uh to answer your question no I think that ultimately your your your grappling style will be a a little bit your personality and a little bit your body type. You have to sort of use uh your assets um as best you can I I study a lot of uh a lot of athletes at the highest level who who have similar builds to me because I I probably need to to gravitate towards the the type of moves that they're doing just because um you know your body type is gonna make certain things easier and certain things harder. It's that just kind of how it works.

Trev Warnke 49:36

Yeah that makes sense I think of uh when I wrestled the 135 pounders the moves they use were different than I was using at 189 yeah um because the strength ratio was so much different and they could get away with mobility they were just more mobile mobile than I was honestly yeah um and I remember seeing them wrestle being like doing these like monkey rolls and I'm like I'm not not gonna try that.

Michael Kaplan 49:54

Yeah I mean as someone with reach I I can keep people away really good but a shorter you know more compact guy is gonna be able to change levels and get hunger and you know shoot and wrestle better and that's just you know the two of us using our assets best we can.

Trev Warnke 50:10

Is there anything else that you want people to know about that I haven't really dug into about your guys' business?

Michael Kaplan 50:15

Well we have a kids camp coming up next month that's gonna be June 8th through the 12th we're celebrating two years of being open um this SAT that's actually tomorrow I don't know if your podcast is going to be out in time for that but uh open mat and potluck kids open mat uh all are welcome for that kids camp what age groups would that be that's gonna be ages uh uh five through thirteen the the older ones we're gonna put in more leadership roles yeah all the all the kids are are welcome for that one probably not any older than 13 yeah I think that's all I got at the moment it's awesome kind of just do a quick recap for everybody I love that you guys found a target like going to Prescott Valley was a very smart I'm looking to look at this from a business perspective very smart way to be like hey I know these other areas have these but and when you live in this area people are like oh it's just in Prescott but that's still 20, 25 minute drive depending on where you're at in this or I live in Chino.

Trev Warnke 51:06

It's a 20, 25 minute drive. So just being like I'm gonna drive over to that, well that's roughly 50 minutes of your night driving. So putting this strategically in a place that didn't have a a big uh a BJJ close enough that's like within we found for gyms most people don't want to drive more than 10 minutes to get to their gym. Correct. And so that's like ideal to be within so that's a very smart like business mood like find the spot that like nobody else is.

Michael Kaplan 51:26

Yeah and I mean things are things are so much more spread out here than they are down in the valley down in the valley there's a gym every square mile. You have us oh you know way on this side of of the Prescott metro area you have ESJ kind of right in the middle and then you have mountain tribe sort of way in uh in downtown Prescott so uh everyone's a good 15 20 minutes away from each other and and um and and honestly like those those other schools have been have been really uh you know nice and supportive to us the the the community is still uh is is uncombative and and and um everyone everyone's on good terms so that that's that's something that's that's uh not that you can't say about about uh the big city as well that is awesome because one thing that I've been talking to a lot of Prescott business owners is is like you guys are in a unique ability in small town to be big enough that if you guys if everybody played really nice together not just talking your business I'm talking about all industries people get very competitive right yeah using losing using landscaping as an example is like there's enough jobs for most people if you guys work together and like really conquered the area better it would be better served and your business would grow better for that purpose. I I I feel strongly about this it's just not productive to to fight and and uh talk bad about each other matter of fact Dylan and I we we were both teaching over there uh at Mountain Tribe before we opened up here and and Rob was was very supportive of this you know since since we told him it was uh it was in the works and and they're gonna be here tomorrow supporting our our two year event and we try to make it over there to support their belt motions and all that stuff.

Trev Warnke 52:59

So no that's awesome that's way way it should be it should be in all communities but especially when you get to smaller communities that are can be more tight knit than like pre than Phoenix which is just so spread out smaller communities you should be able to do that because that just it helps the community overall and I think that's what we need to do.

Michael Kaplan 53:12

Also if you were walk walk through this door and you were looking to try jujitsu and and you asked about the other schools in the area and I said bad things about them like how would you look at me after that? It's not necessarily the you know a a selling point like I'm talking bad about the other businesses. It doesn't make me look like a nice guy.

Trev Warnke 53:31

I mean just knowing you a little bit doesn't seem like your nature either and you're naturally going to be like supportive and I think people that do do community based things, they want to obviously grow their community but they're just trying to grow the community in general for the BJJ community more people doing it. And so you're not gonna talk bad about people because you don't want people to be turned off by what you guys are doing in general.

Michael Kaplan 53:48

Yeah and uh the the community is small uh eventually one of our students is going to go over there um and and mention my name or Dylan's name and and I don't want that conversation to be negative it's out of my control obviously but yeah we have a lot of back and forth between gyms in Phoenix and gyms up here in the area you know having a beef is just is just the worst possible thing we could do.

Trev Warnke 54:10

Yeah I mean in many ways business is stressful enough honestly you just don't need to add those other like weird components where I'm more I'm upset with another business that's just doing their own thing. I'm doing my own thing. Realistically for most small businesses there's plenty of opportunity out there. It's just my big my bet my biggest advice to all small businesses is usually you're the best kept secret because you're just not marketing enough. People don't know you enough, right? And so it's very rarely that people don't have enough lead generation that they need to do is they need to be seen by more people. I'm still doing things like putting on the events that you have coming up those are awesome opportunities for people to see your business and invest in your business and be part of those things. And people just need to do those things honestly more often because it's not that people don't want to be part of you. They could be literally right across the street and have no idea that your jujitsu studio is right here.

Michael Kaplan 54:54

Yeah um that that part of the business is is definitely a little bit challenging finding our avenues for you know setting up a table in public or or whatever is kind of a matter of like talking to the right person, making the right contacts and and whatnot. So the events the kids' camps the movie nights all that it's all just trial and error throwing things at the wall seeing if it sticks very much like to find more ways to get out and interact with the community but um just gonna take time and and meeting the right people.

Trev Warnke 55:24

Yeah and like you kind of said it's just two years into it very early in the journey when you have time to go scale most YouTube gurus are going to tell you to scale faster and I actually tell people scale slower. And the reason I say that is yes it does hurt your your initial financial bottom line but it keeps the community stronger and you're growing in the right things because when you try to scale too fast what you're trying to do is you're bringing in things that don't really fit what you want just for money's sake.

Speaker 2 55:47

Yeah.

Trev Warnke 55:47

And when you're doing those kind of things you scale and then all of a sudden the attention goes down you didn't get enough coaches for the amount of people coming in you don't have a coach that's trained up correctly to even take on more people if you had to do that. Yeah. So I always tell people actually scale slower scale correctly because you're in not a five year game you're in a 30 year game for most people and that 30 year game take it takes 30 years and it really takes a good 10 years to get that real traction going.

Michael Kaplan 56:10

That and and the the the growth has been very much that way two steps forward one step back you know slow and steady as she goes and uh I remember starting out there were there were a couple weeks a couple months where um where we just got hammered with a whole bunch of new people and it was like I mean whoa this is a lot all at once. So slow and and gradual is definitely it gives us a little bit more control to get things right.

Trev Warnke 56:37

Cool. I I love getting to know you today Michael I really appreciate your time. Guys want to check out another episode of Brotherhood Beyond Business podcast we have a bunch coming up all the links to all Michael's stuff's gonna be at the bottom of the podcast it's gonna be in those things it's gonna be on our website we'll be sending stuff off to Michael as well so you can find us anywhere. Thanks for joining us today. Subscribe turn on notifications and stay locked in. Brotherhood is more than business it's about leading from the front, leveling up in every domain and becoming the CEO of your own life. Step up execute and we'll see you in the next one.